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  3. Inspired by one of the questions in this week's #MakersHour.

Inspired by one of the questions in this week's #MakersHour.

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makershour
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  • QuixoticgeekQ Quixoticgeek

    Inspired by one of the questions in this week's #MakersHour. We need to talk about decluttering and minimalism. Cos it's really pissing me off how utterly oblivious to their privilege those who push these are. Not to mention some of the issues relating to the way Minimalism has entered our built environment.

    Thread time.

    (This thread is not aimed at the lovely people of makersHour. Please be nice to them).

    1/n

    QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
    QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
    Quixoticgeek
    wrote last edited by
    #2

    For starters. Note there's a difference between minimalism, and Minimalism. Not to mention that Minimalism movements in various arts (music, art, literature etc...). For the sake of this thread. I'm going to be concentrating on minimalism the aesthetic, and Minimalism the architecture. Oh and don't to be confusing Minimalism and Brutalism. They are not the same.

    Decluttering really rose to prominence with Marie Kondo and her netflix series.

    2/n

    QuixoticgeekQ 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • QuixoticgeekQ Quixoticgeek

      For starters. Note there's a difference between minimalism, and Minimalism. Not to mention that Minimalism movements in various arts (music, art, literature etc...). For the sake of this thread. I'm going to be concentrating on minimalism the aesthetic, and Minimalism the architecture. Oh and don't to be confusing Minimalism and Brutalism. They are not the same.

      Decluttering really rose to prominence with Marie Kondo and her netflix series.

      2/n

      QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
      QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
      Quixoticgeek
      wrote last edited by
      #3

      Does this item bring you joy? Was a tool she used when helping people organise their stuff. Yeah, turns out that question doesn't work when it comes to the electricity bill...

      In a way this is tied to the fashion for minimalism as an aesthetic. Remember all those pictures of white homes with white furniture and very few personal possessions? The problem is in order to be able to throw something away you need to be either absolutely sure that you will never need it again. *OR* ...
      3/n

      QuixoticgeekQ 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • QuixoticgeekQ Quixoticgeek

        Does this item bring you joy? Was a tool she used when helping people organise their stuff. Yeah, turns out that question doesn't work when it comes to the electricity bill...

        In a way this is tied to the fashion for minimalism as an aesthetic. Remember all those pictures of white homes with white furniture and very few personal possessions? The problem is in order to be able to throw something away you need to be either absolutely sure that you will never need it again. *OR* ...
        3/n

        QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
        QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
        Quixoticgeek
        wrote last edited by
        #4

        If you do need it again you're in a financial position to require it. Yes I could probably throw away that 300mm off cut of wood left over from a project. But if I need a small piece of wood in future (quite likely), I'll have to buy a full length. Etc... I have a pile of "useful" packaging boxes sat on top of a cabinet. I could throw it all out, none of it cost me money. But if I need to post something, I'm going to need to spend money, and time to buy something. So the pile of boxes exists
        4/n

        QuixoticgeekQ 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • QuixoticgeekQ Quixoticgeek

          If you do need it again you're in a financial position to require it. Yes I could probably throw away that 300mm off cut of wood left over from a project. But if I need a small piece of wood in future (quite likely), I'll have to buy a full length. Etc... I have a pile of "useful" packaging boxes sat on top of a cabinet. I could throw it all out, none of it cost me money. But if I need to post something, I'm going to need to spend money, and time to buy something. So the pile of boxes exists
          4/n

          QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
          QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
          Quixoticgeek
          wrote last edited by
          #5

          Now, I'm sure to get a small pileon from people telling me that there's a difference between having stuff, and hoarding. And they are right. Kinda.

          Severe enough Hoarding can be a psychological condition, often with causes rooted in trauma responses. The thing is, for almost everyone reading this thread. That is not you. Having a lot of stuff is not the same as hoarding and should not be treated the same. Starting with, don't feel bad for having possessions. (Sorry Marx).
          5/n

          QuixoticgeekQ 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • QuixoticgeekQ Quixoticgeek

            Now, I'm sure to get a small pileon from people telling me that there's a difference between having stuff, and hoarding. And they are right. Kinda.

            Severe enough Hoarding can be a psychological condition, often with causes rooted in trauma responses. The thing is, for almost everyone reading this thread. That is not you. Having a lot of stuff is not the same as hoarding and should not be treated the same. Starting with, don't feel bad for having possessions. (Sorry Marx).
            5/n

            QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
            QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
            Quixoticgeek
            wrote last edited by
            #6

            I have friends who went for the decluttering thing, with a big clear out and getting rid of possessions. And now a few years later, they are trying to buy back some of the books they got rid of. Fortunately they are financially able to do this. But it's not an enjoyable process. I hate to watch it, but there's nothing I can do. At the time or now.

            So how does this fit in with minimalism the aesthetic?
            6/n

            QuixoticgeekQ 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • QuixoticgeekQ Quixoticgeek

              I have friends who went for the decluttering thing, with a big clear out and getting rid of possessions. And now a few years later, they are trying to buy back some of the books they got rid of. Fortunately they are financially able to do this. But it's not an enjoyable process. I hate to watch it, but there's nothing I can do. At the time or now.

              So how does this fit in with minimalism the aesthetic?
              6/n

              QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
              QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
              Quixoticgeek
              wrote last edited by
              #7

              I'm not sure how, but a while back I fell down a YouTube rabbit hole of interior design videos. Around the time when the minimalism aesthetic was quite prominent. Watching those videos I felt cold. There was something about the houses featured in those videos, & I say house and not home intentionally, it just felt. Cold. Unwelcoming. Impersonal. Unloved. It made me wonder about the people who live there. What is their personality? Do they have any hobbies? Are they just their job & netflix?
              7/n

              QuixoticgeekQ 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • QuixoticgeekQ Quixoticgeek

                I'm not sure how, but a while back I fell down a YouTube rabbit hole of interior design videos. Around the time when the minimalism aesthetic was quite prominent. Watching those videos I felt cold. There was something about the houses featured in those videos, & I say house and not home intentionally, it just felt. Cold. Unwelcoming. Impersonal. Unloved. It made me wonder about the people who live there. What is their personality? Do they have any hobbies? Are they just their job & netflix?
                7/n

                QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
                QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
                Quixoticgeek
                wrote last edited by
                #8

                The home you live in says a lot about who you are. Your personality, your hobbies, your interests. Whether it's the climbing gear hanging in the hallway, or the hiking maps of the Pyrenees on the dining table, or the fantasy books on the shelf. It's part of who you are. All a white carpet and white sofa and absent shelves and empty walls tells us is? Is what exactly? You really like cleaning or can pay someone to clean for you ? I don't get it.
                8/n

                QuixoticgeekQ 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • QuixoticgeekQ Quixoticgeek

                  The home you live in says a lot about who you are. Your personality, your hobbies, your interests. Whether it's the climbing gear hanging in the hallway, or the hiking maps of the Pyrenees on the dining table, or the fantasy books on the shelf. It's part of who you are. All a white carpet and white sofa and absent shelves and empty walls tells us is? Is what exactly? You really like cleaning or can pay someone to clean for you ? I don't get it.
                  8/n

                  QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
                  QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
                  Quixoticgeek
                  wrote last edited by
                  #9

                  And it's not like that minimalism comes cheap. There's a white sofa that's popular with certain types of celebrities that costs upwards of $500,000. That's not a typo. No I'm not using some weird continental comma as a decimal point thing. The whole aesthetic is flaunting wealth in an aspirational way. It real bugs me.

                  At the other end of the scale tho there the extreme minimalists who divest themselves of all their possessions. Down to the "bare essentials". And wow is that privileged.
                  9/n

                  QuixoticgeekQ 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • QuixoticgeekQ Quixoticgeek

                    And it's not like that minimalism comes cheap. There's a white sofa that's popular with certain types of celebrities that costs upwards of $500,000. That's not a typo. No I'm not using some weird continental comma as a decimal point thing. The whole aesthetic is flaunting wealth in an aspirational way. It real bugs me.

                    At the other end of the scale tho there the extreme minimalists who divest themselves of all their possessions. Down to the "bare essentials". And wow is that privileged.
                    9/n

                    QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
                    QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
                    Quixoticgeek
                    wrote last edited by
                    #10

                    The YouTube channel "exploring alternatives" had a video a few years ago about "extreme minimalism" and specifically some guy who had only 47 possessions. It's a cool idea. Pair your life down to the absolute bare minimum. Even down to not having a home. Instead relying on borrowing places from others. As if that shouldn't be a giant red flag of privilege right there (no a red flag wasn't one of the 47 items). This is an incredibly extreme form of minimalism. And it's utterly unsustainable.
                    10/n

                    QuixoticgeekQ 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • QuixoticgeekQ Quixoticgeek

                      The YouTube channel "exploring alternatives" had a video a few years ago about "extreme minimalism" and specifically some guy who had only 47 possessions. It's a cool idea. Pair your life down to the absolute bare minimum. Even down to not having a home. Instead relying on borrowing places from others. As if that shouldn't be a giant red flag of privilege right there (no a red flag wasn't one of the 47 items). This is an incredibly extreme form of minimalism. And it's utterly unsustainable.
                      10/n

                      QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
                      QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
                      Quixoticgeek
                      wrote last edited by
                      #11

                      They had even got rid of their winter clothing for the summer, because of the privilege of being able to buy more come the next winter. That's not only incredibly privileged, but it's the complete antithesis of the anti consumer idea that minimalism original espoused. Imagine if everyone threw out their Christmas decorations every January and bought them again in December... The amount of waste. Yikes. It hurts just thinking about it.
                      11/n

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                      0
                      • QuixoticgeekQ Quixoticgeek

                        They had even got rid of their winter clothing for the summer, because of the privilege of being able to buy more come the next winter. That's not only incredibly privileged, but it's the complete antithesis of the anti consumer idea that minimalism original espoused. Imagine if everyone threw out their Christmas decorations every January and bought them again in December... The amount of waste. Yikes. It hurts just thinking about it.
                        11/n

                        QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
                        QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
                        Quixoticgeek
                        wrote last edited by
                        #12

                        So what does this mean for most of us? Don't feel bad that you have stuff. For almost everyone reading this, you're not a hoarder. You just have possessions. And chances are they just aren't store well. Rather than binning stuff, you are probably better off looking at ways to better organise them. Investing some time and effort into some storage crates or organisation items is likely to be far more beneficial to you than throwing stuff out that you may later regret.

                        12/n

                        QuixoticgeekQ 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • QuixoticgeekQ Quixoticgeek

                          So what does this mean for most of us? Don't feel bad that you have stuff. For almost everyone reading this, you're not a hoarder. You just have possessions. And chances are they just aren't store well. Rather than binning stuff, you are probably better off looking at ways to better organise them. Investing some time and effort into some storage crates or organisation items is likely to be far more beneficial to you than throwing stuff out that you may later regret.

                          12/n

                          QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
                          QuixoticgeekQ This user is from outside of this forum
                          Quixoticgeek
                          wrote last edited by
                          #13

                          I said at the start of this thread I'd also talk about Minimalism the architecture movement. But as this thread is already 13 posts long, and I'm getting cold sat here sipping a beer and writing the thread. I'm gonna do a separate thread in the next few days on Minimalist architecture and the built environment.

                          13/13

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                          • QuixoticgeekQ Quixoticgeek

                            I said at the start of this thread I'd also talk about Minimalism the architecture movement. But as this thread is already 13 posts long, and I'm getting cold sat here sipping a beer and writing the thread. I'm gonna do a separate thread in the next few days on Minimalist architecture and the built environment.

                            13/13

                            Petra van CronenburgN This user is from outside of this forum
                            Petra van CronenburgN This user is from outside of this forum
                            Petra van Cronenburg
                            wrote last edited by
                            #14

                            @quixoticgeek ๐Ÿงต I like your thread very much!
                            I'm in the situation of preparing to move to something smaller after collecting important stuff for more than 30 yrs, and I often curse: "Why didn't I listen to Kondo!" ๐Ÿ˜‚ But regarding old things I remember that things tell stories, they are physical memories. And the collected stones from a holiday are much more precious than everything money can buy. But well, I have to sort stuff out and it's so difficult to decide! ๐Ÿ˜Ž
                            What you tell about

                            Petra van CronenburgN 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • Petra van CronenburgN Petra van Cronenburg

                              @quixoticgeek ๐Ÿงต I like your thread very much!
                              I'm in the situation of preparing to move to something smaller after collecting important stuff for more than 30 yrs, and I often curse: "Why didn't I listen to Kondo!" ๐Ÿ˜‚ But regarding old things I remember that things tell stories, they are physical memories. And the collected stones from a holiday are much more precious than everything money can buy. But well, I have to sort stuff out and it's so difficult to decide! ๐Ÿ˜Ž
                              What you tell about

                              Petra van CronenburgN This user is from outside of this forum
                              Petra van CronenburgN This user is from outside of this forum
                              Petra van Cronenburg
                              wrote last edited by
                              #15

                              @quixoticgeek ๐Ÿงต material you could need for repairing, it was the norm of living dozens of years ago!
                              In our farmhouse museum, we show people how everything was repaired and material collected to have parts for repairing. Our conservators do the same: we have cupboards full of old screws from the rubbish โ€“ because the sizes for historical objects are no longer manufactured. People who collect/donate such materials help us to maintain our exhibition pieces.
                              And people with Kondo-houses can't

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