I figured this out during the pandemic
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1: Those who value human life
2: and those who don’t
It’s kind of the eternal struggle when you think about it
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I don’t care about other people at all. Leave me alone and let me be.
But I also don’t believe that anyone should go homeless or hungry when we have billionaires with plenty of money to share, which is why I refuse to vote republican.
Bottom line is that people annoy me, but I still have empathy.
Hello, fellow empathetic misanthrope (or is that “misanthropic empath”?)
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Add a third category for those who willingly oppress others.
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They do care about others, but only the ones they know.
People they don’t know, they don’t care about at all.
That is why when they meet someone of the “others” and they make a connection, they call them “one of the good ones”. The rest of the same group they still don’t care about, just that one person.
This. Even Hitler liked his dog and I’ve never heard of him abusing his wife. There are for sure psychopaths (or was it sociopaths?) who genuinely don’t care about literally anybody, but you don’t need that condition to massmurder.
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I know that you’re explaining the argument and not actually endorsing it, so this isn’t directed at you:
You know that they just get given food at jail, right? And it’s still your money paying for that. And now those people are literally restricted from participating in society. If we fed them without jailing them, they could hold a job and spend money and provide to their community; instead we are paying for a punishment hotel to house and feed them in isolation. So if you subtract the cost of food from both sides since we’re feeding them either way, you just want to pay a lot of money to make them miserable, and also waive any benefit that society could recoup from having them be fed.
you just want to pay a lot of money to make them miserable, and also waive any benefit that society could recoup from having them be fed.
Pretty much what they want, but some are even worse. There is a phrase “3 hots and a cot” to mean 3 meals and a place to sleep. People like my uncle say it with disgust, as if they shouldn’t be fed, that they’re somehow on an enviable vacation being in prison… They’re so gross…
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Oh there is further division.
There’s also those who understand that they care too much for their own good and try not to.
And then there is those that are good at finding out what others care about and using it against them. -
1: Those who value human life
2: and those who don’t
It’s kind of the eternal struggle when you think about it
It’s :
- Those who value human life and
- Those who $$value$$ human life
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It’s not just about caring for others. They get offended by seeing anybody be a better person in any way, so they want to criminalize being a good person to never feel inferior to others again, without having to actually do anything good themselves.
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You misunderstood what I meant, so I must have communicated badly.
I meant, people who often say “leave me alone” are “libertarian” types who want to benefit from society without contributing as they’re able (with money or labor). Think of the kind of guy who says “leave me alone! I don’t want to pay taxes for some school. I don’t even have kids.” They benefit from public education, but they don’t see it that way, and they’d rather keep that 20% of their paycheck than have a fire department. I wouldn’t call a baby a “freeloader” because they’re not really capable of doing much. It’s when people can contribute but selfishly and self-destructively choose not to that I’m scornful.
In other words, when someone says their politics are “leave me alone” I am very suspicious of their understanding of society. They want the privileges of society without the obligations, typically.
When I say “leave me alone”, I mean:
- don’t come up to my table when I am studying, snatch what I am working on and run away…
- don’t bang/kick on my door when you only intend to run away…
- don’t steal stuff from my bag/locker/whatever container legally marked as mine…
- don’t, when you randomly see me walking on the road, minding my own business, come and beat me up or try to frame me for some random crime that you made up…
… just to then say, “oh! I’m just trying to make friends”.
If that is how you (whoever that is) make friends, leave me alone. I don’t want to be made into your “friend”.
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When I say “leave me alone”, I mean:
- don’t come up to my table when I am studying, snatch what I am working on and run away…
- don’t bang/kick on my door when you only intend to run away…
- don’t steal stuff from my bag/locker/whatever container legally marked as mine…
- don’t, when you randomly see me walking on the road, minding my own business, come and beat me up or try to frame me for some random crime that you made up…
… just to then say, “oh! I’m just trying to make friends”.
If that is how you (whoever that is) make friends, leave me alone. I don’t want to be made into your “friend”.
I don’t think I’ve encountered any of those behaviors, except maybe rarely in like middle school. Those are not healthy, prosocial behaviors, nor are they commonplace.
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I had to pretend to not care about others, because you actually get shamed if you do care. So I push forward all sorts of anti-social things, because it’s best we just end this society thing now and stop hurting each other.
Humans are clearly unworthy of having societies. So I run on 0 trust.
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This. Even Hitler liked his dog and I’ve never heard of him abusing his wife. There are for sure psychopaths (or was it sociopaths?) who genuinely don’t care about literally anybody, but you don’t need that condition to massmurder.
Hitler iirc, tried to smuggle out a jew, in an ironic twist.
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I really don’t know how to convince people they should care about others.
I don’t know how to teach empathy.
It’s simply a property you have or don’t have. Obviously it’s a more meaningful, deeper thing than being a bootstraps sociopath. But the thing is, if someone needs an actual reason to have empathy, then they just aren’t truly a good person really.
The way I try to convince them, is by saying that empathy is the reason they are here, and have what they do. And that like others gave to them, they should give to others. It’s like a retroactive deal, where the reason the whole thing works, is because you pay forward to the next generation, in hopes that they will do the same.
Then we got generations of bootstrap sociopaths that leave their own children in impossible situations. They don’t care about right or wrong.
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You’re taught empathy by empathetic parents.
And we see now a lot of families have a long lineage of cunts.
My father wondering why my brother is psychotic, after he laughed at and teased him every time he cried, and told him men don’t cry. I knew this, and tried the soft approach, but he told me he is way older and more experienced, that he knows what he is doing.
My brother broke his hand with a stick. To be fair, I found it hard to be empathetic to a child crying because they didn’t get something also, I’d just crack up if it was something absurd, I couldn’t help it. We lived like absolute shit, and he is freaking out because he lost in a game.
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It’s crazy to me that the people around me would rather “accidentally” harm someone that doesn’t deserve it than accidentally help someone that might not deserve it
It’s up to us, to apply plain force, economic or otherwise to get these people in line. It’s the sad reality. We have two options: do something about it, or let it burn, and hope more of us than them survive.
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I really don’t know how to convince people they should care about others.
I don’t know how to teach empathy.
Western capitalistic mantra idolizes individualism. Its so ingrained in the culture that you can actually not care about anyone outside of your ingroup and do okay. In other cultures you would be cooked.
Lack of empathy is a natural consequence of the culture. I always find it fascinating that people here relish in their disdain towards others. Don’t get me wrong people can be annoying.
But when you combine disdain for others with a perception of patriotism that is centered on violence, you are creating the optimal conditions for fascism to take root.
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I swear to fucking god that it’s not even that; it’s people that care for others, and people that are willfully ignorant that it’s actually pragmatically cheaper and more efficient to care for others than to treat them like shit.
Pandemic as an example : the more you stay indoors and try to stop the spread of the virus, the faster the pandemic ends and the faster YOU can get back to normal. FORGET that it also stops people dying and protects the vulnerable, it’s in YOUR SELFISH INTEREST.
Or having a basic system of social welfare : giving bread to a poor person costs the price of the bread. Having to imprison them, pay for cops, repair of broken things, investigations etc costs more fucking money. even if you hate people and want them to die, it’s fucking CHEAPER FOR YOU.
But I wanted to go to the salon and then to applebees
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People follow their emotions. It feels bad for a poor person to get a “handout”, and it feels good for a “bad” for a bad person to be punished. That’s pretty much it. Multiply it by “my in-group is good and my outgroup is bad”, and you get conservatism.
Notice that it’s a stupid world view. It’s at the level of toddlers.
If we want to change how these people act, we need to reach them on their level. Facts won’t do it. They’re not listening to facts. You need to make them feel good when they do the right thing.
It does feel like being held hostage by a cranky toddler, yes. We have to pander and beg and appease them because they’re too selfish and stupid to realize it would be better for everyone, including them, if they just cooperated.
It feels bad for a poor person to get food is only true under a capitalist brainrot worldview. Throughout most of human history it felt good to help the poor.
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It’s not just about caring for others. They get offended by seeing anybody be a better person in any way, so they want to criminalize being a good person to never feel inferior to others again, without having to actually do anything good themselves.
Kind of tall poppy-ish isn’t it? Even just acknowledging that good can be done can trigger some really hostile reactions from people.
Like I get it, we’ve been trained into it to manage the information density and society we find ourselves in, but surely you’d expect the human part to kick in at some point right?
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It’s crazy to me that the people around me would rather “accidentally” harm someone that doesn’t deserve it than accidentally help someone that might not deserve it
Fuck me that’s a good way to put it.
